| Lena Glazunova | В IPNI и TROPICOS есть ещё и Allium hissaricum Vved. Вот только это не синоним Allium alexeianum var. hissaricum Lipsky... |
| Janis Ruksans | I never saw Allium hissaricum, but it certainly isn't A. alexeianum var. hissaricum.
Differences between Allium nevskianum and A. alexeianum observed by me are:
Allium nevskianum - has 2 leaves, is growing on stone-slides, stem push flowerhead well over leaves, increases by bulb splitting even in wild (largest clump seen consisted from 18 bulbs), bulbs lie in ground deeply. Good grower in cultivation even in open garden.
Allium alexeianum - has only 1 leaf, is growing on "melkozemi" (flat, hard clay), flowerhead sitting on very short stem, never increases by splitting of bulb even in cultivation. Difficult to cultivate, here succeed only in greenhouse under cover.
There are smaller morphological differences, too. Seeing both in nature, no doubt that they are different.
According Fritsch, leaf number is not important as it varie in both species |
| Janis Ruksans | By the way - all former pictures on Plantarium labelled as Allium alexeianum, really are A. nevskianum. In 1982, when I collected the first bulbs from this complex in Varzob gorge, initially I identified them as A. alexeainum, too. I was very inexperienced and only started my collections, but later I soon discovered mistake. There is excellent publication about CA Allium taxonomy in which you will found following key:
40. Flowers broadly funnel-shaped, tepals lanceolate, patent, dirty red or greenish-brown, in the dry state prickly by a thick stiff median vein (77) Allium alexeianum
40* Flowers narrower funnel-shaped, tepals narrowly lanceolate, somewhat recurved, pink to purplish, in the dry state soft becoming only crumbled (79) Allium nevskianum
See: A Preliminary Review of Allium subg. Melanocrommyum in Central Asia by Reinhard M. Fritsch. Leibniz-Institut für Pflanzengenetik und Kulturpflanzenforschung Gatersleben (IPK), 2016
Unfortunately it was not published in printed form (lacking of financing) but only on internet. Another paper about Alliums of Iran is in printed form, too. |
| Janis Ruksans | Something more from Fritsch, 2016:
Allium alexeianum, the type species of subsect. Ligulifolia, belongs to the rather large group of subg. Melanocrommyum species possessing long elliptic to ovate leaf laminae, that are ± violet during unfolding, and later bluish-green. In anthesis, A. alexeianum (central parts of Turkestan and Zaravshan mountain ranges) is rather similar to its vicariant species A. nevskianum (Hissar mountain range) that has commonly paler flowers, but after anthesis the tepals of A. alexeianum become stiff and prickly, and those of A. nevskianum remain soft becoming only crumbled (Fritsch 2012b: 256, Figs. 61 and 62). Molecular markers (ITS sequences of nuclear rDNA, sequences of the plastid trnL-trnF region) support affiliation of A. alexeianum to sect. Kaloprason with A. nevskianum, A. caspium s. lat., and A. protensum as closest relatives; A. gypsaceum and A. aroides as well as A. sarawschanicum are more distantly related.
By the way - Allium nevskianum is crossable with A. sarawschanicum and there is reported hybrid with stipitatum by E. Dambrauskas, Lithuania |
| Janis Ruksans | Лена Глазунова wrote:В IPNI и TROPICOS есть ещё и Allium hissaricum Vved. Вот только это не синоним Allium alexeianum var. hissaricum Lipsky...
Allium hissaricum belongs to completely different group of Allium species - sect. Regeloprason and closest relatives are A.A. darwasicum, lipskyanum, sochense. A. nevskianum and alexeianum belongs to sect. Kaloprason |
| Dmitry Oreshkin | Is "Allium nevskianum Vved." and "Allium nevskianum Wendelbo" really different combinations or just differently recorded "Allium nevskianum Vved. ex Wendelbo"? |
| Dmitry Oreshkin | |
| Dmitry Oreshkin | Как я понимаю, возражения отсутствуют. |
| Dmitry Oreshkin | Янис Рукшанс wrote:By the way - all former pictures on Plantarium labelled as Allium alexeianum, really are A. nevskianum.
Переименовал "Allium nevskianum Wendelbo" в "Allium nevskianum Vved. ex Wendelbo" и сделал его отдельным видом.
Перенёс все ранее загруженные фото от Allium alexeianum к Allium nevskianum, за исключением
 |
| Aleksandr Ebel | А на заглавном фото растения с 2 листьями, что противоречит п. 2 настоящего обсуждения. |
| Dmitry Oreshkin | Янис Рукшанс wrote:According Fritsch, leaf number is not important as it varie in both species
См. также гербарий: https://www.gbif.org/species/2857024 |
| Andriy Kovalchuk | Снимок, который сейчас выбран главным, Янис отнёс к A. nevskianum:
https://forum.plantarium.ru/viewtopic.php?pid=431038#p431038 |
| Dmitry Oreshkin | Перенёс к A. nevskianum оба фото, где это название упомянуто в имени файла. |
| Andriy Kovalchuk | Дмитрий Орешкин wrote:Is "Allium nevskianum Vved." and "Allium nevskianum Wendelbo" really different combinations or just differently recorded "Allium nevskianum Vved. ex Wendelbo"?
Да, это разные комбинации, причём "Allium nevskianum Vved." (1971) (обнародованная во 2-м томе ОРСА), похоже, ещё и незаконная. Запись "Allium nevskianum Vved. ex Wendelbo" (1969) верна и приоритетна. |
| Dmitry Oreshkin | Добавлю "nom. illeg." к "Allium nevskianum Vved."? |